The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode•February 25, 2025•9 min

What's the long-term cost of federal layoffs?

The personal story of how an energetic lawyer got knocked off from her dream career and what she thinks that might mean for whether the government can attract talented people in the future. Related Episodes: A 'Fork in the Road' for federal employees (Apple (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-fork-in-the-road-for-federal-employees/id1320118593?i=1000690056474) / Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6kk0d5SQNir6bNrQTtqdu4?si=IS9BNsoOQDqjYWCqX7w31Q)) Bailing out the FAIR plan, broligarchs beef, and CFPB RIP? (Apple (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bailing-out-the-fair-plan-broligarchs-beef-and-cfpb-rip/id1320118593?i=1000692061112) / Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/episode/7HFTOuO0yL70zl8zTdhvRD?si=Sg-N7f6TRgWjXmL3LEM1dQ)) For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org (http://plus.npr.org/). Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez (https://www.npr.org/people/g-s1-26724/sierra-juarez). Music by Drop Electric (https://dropelectric.bandcamp.com/). Find us: TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@planetmoney), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/planetmoney/), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/planetmoney), Newsletter (https://www.npr.org/newsletter/money). To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices (https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices) NPR Privacy Policy (https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy)

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Transcript

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Npr.

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This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian Woods. The Office of Personnel Management and Elon Musk have been confusing federal workers with an email over the weekend. It asks them what they'd done over the last week. After Musk tweeted that failure to respond will be taken as a resignation, the Office of Personnel Management reportedly said on Monday that it was optional after all. And behind these big headlines of resignation offers and layoffs, there are countless unique stories like from Elizabeth Anaskevich. Elizabeth was working for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau until she got a memo at 8:30 at night in early February.

0:53

It was just, it was, it was shocking. Even though it was somewhat expected.

1:01

Today on the show, the personal story of how an energetic lawyer got knocked off from her dream career and what she thinks that might mean for whether the government can attract talented people in the future. Elizabeth Anaskiewicz's career kind of began when she was just 14 years old. She'd been called into her school's front office.

1:28

There were police officers in there who said, you know, we have a warrant for your arrest for shoplifting from a beauty store that I had never been to. I'm thinking, is this like a Scared Straight joke? Are they trying to tell me, like, stay on the right path and it can go wrong, you know, if you don't. I was so confused by that. But it quickly became obvious. It was very real when I was taken out of school in handcuffs to the police department and booked and was told I would have to stay overnight.

1:59

Elizabeth's father managed to get her out of jail that night, and her parents paid for a lawyer. The lawyer gave Elizabeth the option of writing a letter of apology.

2:09

And at that moment I think, oh, I bet a lot of people sign a letter of apology when they didn't do it. I need to go to law school.

2:17

The charges were dropped and Elizabeth ended up suing the police department, reaching a settlement a few years later. And Elizabeth ends up following her dream. She becomes a lawyer. She focuses on securities law. And then about a year ago, she gets a tip. A former colleague said she'd be great for this job going at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the cfpb.

2:39

The CFPB kind of married everything for me. I get to look at financial markets, I get to help regulate them. I get to stop predatory behavior and really work on behalf of everyday consumers.

2:51

So in the legal profession, you kind of have a few choices with radically different paying conditions. So, for example, you could go down the corporate law route and get paid a lot of money to defend companies accused of breaking the law. Or another pathway is that you could work for nonprofits or the government. The opportunities for pay growth in those two areas might be less. But Elizabeth says things like contributing to a wider purpose that she cared about really mattered to her.

3:21

I am willing to make less money than I could to do good work because what ultimately motivates me is not making money.

3:29

And another benefit Elizabeth thought about once she landed the position is that this kind of government work usually has more job security.

3:36

I'm pushing 40, I am a single person, I own a home. And I felt like when I started this job, I really felt I could be here for decades.

3:47

In the middle of last year, Elizabeth plunges straight into the work. She learns all about the way the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau operates its complaint database that has 10 million complaints from everyday consumers, the fact that it's returned $21 billion to them over 13 years. And in January, she files a big lawsuit against a big credit report company.

4:10

So we, we. I'm not there anymore, the cfpb, but I was part of the team that did this, filed a lawsuit against Experian.

4:18

What the lawsuit alleges relates to a common scenario. When people check their credit score, they might see that their score unexpectedly falls. The credit report says that, for example, a local gym claims you have not the monthly subscription fee, but the consumer has. There's been an error. So this gym goer asks Experian to investigate. And this lawsuit alleges that Experian wasn't really doing much to investigate a lot of these complaints.

4:48

That's where the CFPB can play a really important role. And I was, I was really excited and proud of that case.

4:54

A post on Experian's website says the lawsuit is completely without merit. We reached out repeatedly to Experian to respond to the lawsuit that they didn't investigate users credit report errors through email, phone and with a couriered letter. We didn't receive a reply. Worth noting that many companies on the receiving end of these kinds of actions criticise the CFPB for the discretion it has in enforcing regulations. Maybe because of these kinds of criticisms, the agency's work has been on ice since President Trump came into office.

5:26

I had received a stop work order, as had everyone, and we were told the only thing we could do in court is file a notice to basically ask the judge to pause the case.

5:37

The Trump administration also asked agencies for a list of every probationary employee. Now, it's important to note that a probationary employee hasn't done anything wrong, it just means they've had their position for less than a year or two and have less legal protection. That included Elizabeth. Her supervisor wrote a memo in support of Elizabeth, trying to keep her.

5:58

I had a really good performance review that sort of lauded me for stepping right in and getting to work and finding creative solutions.

6:07

So there was a sliver of hope, but only a sliver.

6:11

The morale was not great across the bureau. I mean, we were all really scared for what was to come. It's like we're doing the work, but there's just this kind of cloud over us of like, does this matter? Is this gonna go anywhere? Are we just gonna be shut down? And it's like, I think we all had to tap into, like, a little bit of cognitive dissonance between the reality of what's happening outside of the bureau and what we can try to accomplish while we're inside of it.

6:46

Then on a Tuesday night in early February, her work devices sound their alerts.

6:52

My work phone and computer sor make a doo doo type of sound and says, oh, you've been kicked out. You need to log back in. So I'm thinking, oh, no, something bad has happened.

7:01

When Elizabeth logs back in, she sees a notice.

7:04

So it says, this is to provide notification that I am removing you from your position of attorney, advisor and federal service. Unfortunately, the agency finds that you are not fit for continued employment because your ability, knowledge, and skills do not fit the agency's current needs.

7:21

Elizabeth is on a private group chat with about 80 probationary and contract employees at the CFPB. Within 15 to 30 minutes, everyone on that chat has received the same letter.

7:33

It was just, I mean, it's like we knew we were on a list. We knew this could happen. I didn't think I would get a letter after hours terminating me, and I just cried and engaged in some gallows humor to get back on my feet. And then I pretty quickly went to, absolutely not. I'm fighting back. What can I do to get the word out? We were immediately organizing us probationary employees on our channel chat, working on what lawsuits would be filed and that were subsequently filed. We protested the next day.

8:15

I'm seeing some parallels between the 14 falsely accused of shoplifting here.

8:22

Yeah, it seems like there is sort of this rage that resides in me, and I do what I can to make the best of a bad situation.

8:32

Looking more broadly, Elizabeth sees a real risk for the country. She thinks that by pulling the rug under high performing employees who thought their jobs were secure, the federal government might find it harder to hire in the future.

8:45

I mean, this is worse than I think I've heard of any public company, you know, tossing someone out or any company. I think that's a really scary story for future generations to hear, and it's just really scary.

9:01

Elizabeth herself will be fine. She says her phone is blowing up with potential job offers. She is highly employable, after all. But as of this week, she has been too busy talking with people about what happened. This episode was produced by Angel Carreras with engineering by Kwesi Lee. It was fact checked by Sarah Juarez. Cake and Cannon edits the show, and the Indicator is a production of npr.

What's the long-term cost of federal layoffs?

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