The Indicator from Planet Money

Episode•October 10, 2025•11 min

Scam compounds, sewing patterns and stolen dimes

As Vice Week wraps up here at The Indicator, we wanted to take a slightly different perspective on the evolving business of crime and take a look at TRUE crime. As in the genre. Because look, people are obsessed with it! Today on the show, our hosts favorite pieces of true crime content. Darian Woods: The Economist’s Scam Inc (https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc). Wailin Wong: Wednesday Journal’s A tangled mess (https://www.oakpark.com/2017/07/25/a-tangled-mess/) Adrian Ma: Philadelphia Inquirer’s Dime Heist story (https://www.inquirer.com/crime/dime-theft-philadelphia-suspect-court-hearing-20250225.html) Related episodes: Fighting AI with AI (https://www.npr.org/2025/10/06/nx-s1-5561881/fighting-ai-with-ai) What’s supercharging data breaches? (https://www.npr.org/2025/10/07/nx-s1-5563884/whats-supercharging-data-breaches) When cartels start to diversify (https://www.npr.org/2025/10/08/nx-s1-5553663/when-cartels-start-to-diversify) For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org (http://plus.npr.org/). Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez (https://www.npr.org/people/1268825622/sierra-juarez). Music by Drop Electric (https://dropelectric.bandcamp.com/). Find us: TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@planetmoney), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/planetmoney/), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/planetmoney), Newsletter (https://www.npr.org/newsletter/money). To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices (https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices) NPR Privacy Policy (https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy)

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Transcript

0:00

Big announcement. Planet Money is writing a book. It's been in production for over a year and today, finally it's available for pre order@planetmoneybook.com it's called Planet Money, a guide to the economic forces that shape your life. It has brand new stories, updates on some favorites and beautiful illustrations. Almost everybody on the team helped make it. We think it's like the best of Planet Money turned into something you can hold or give to a friend. Each section is a little collection of stories that help you use economics to make life a little richer. From work and career to dating and family, to retirement and food. And of course, we'll be doing some episodes about the behind the scenes things we learned. Like this. Pre ordering a book helps the author so much more than waiting to buy it because this sends a signal to the booksellers to stock up to promote it. Put it on that front table when it publishes. So help us get those strong pre order sales. By pre ordering, you'll get a free gift and a month of Planet Money. Plus, if you aren't already a subscriber, go to planetmoneybook.com that's planetmoneybook.com thank you

1:21

NPR. This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Waylon Wong.

1:35

I'm Darian Woods.

1:36

And I'm Adrienne Ma. And we're all here to welcome you to our final installment of our week long Vice series where we've been exploring the evolving business of crime. And today we are talking about our favorite pieces of true crime content with a little econ twist.

1:52

Yeah, true crime is a super hot industry. A recent study found 84% of the US population ages 13 and up consume 60. Some form of true crime content. Obviously we know it's big in podcasts. We've got Serial, My Favorite Murder Criminal.

2:09

So we're going to have a freewheeling discussion going through each of our favorite pieces of true crime content. We'll bring you an economic lesson from it.

2:22

Darian, you want to start us off?

2:24

Yeah. So my favorite true crime series that I've listened to recently is one called Scam Inc. It's a podcast series by the Economist magazine. And this one goes really deep into pig butchering. You've probably heard about pig butchering elsewhere.

2:41

Yeah, I've heard of this. It's basically a long term scam.

2:45

Yeah. So instead of having just a single email saying give me your money, it's like an ongoing relationship and maybe it's a long term business partner or a long distance relationship from Somebody you've found on a dating website and then eventually the call for money happens.

3:03

Yeah, you know, I get these texts almost once a day. It'll be from an unfamiliar number and it'll just say hello or how are you doing? And I think that's the beginning of one of these scams, right, to draw me into a bigger conversation. So I'm the pig in this scenario.

3:16

If you reply to that, you are the pig or the piglet waiting to be fattened up.

3:21

Oh dear.

3:22

Yeah. So this is why they call it pig butchering. Right, because they're sort of trying to fatten up their targets before they drop the axe.

3:29

Exactly. And what this podcast showed me was this whole infrastructure underlying pig butchering. It is global. It is really confusing who the bad people are because actually there are other people on the line, victims themselves a lot of the time. So the podcast had interviews with people who had been promised well paying call centre jobs. They flew into Thailand from places like the Philippines or Uganda and a driver picked them up from the airport. They're driven for hours and hours and hours until they pass the border with Myanmar and they're escorted by people with guns. Their passports are taken away. They're threatened with physical punishments if they don't meet quotas for who they scam. There's division of labor, just like we see in above board businesses. So somebody will be a specialist in setting up profiles. Others will do the initial chat to people. And overall.

4:24

So it really is sort of like a. Almost like a corporate structure to this scam operation.

4:28

Yeah, it's made me appreciate just how much of an uphill battle this fight against scammers is for law enforcement all around the world.

4:35

I'm gonna have to put that on my listen list. Waylon, do you want to go next?

4:40

Yes. I will say mine is much lighter and lower stakes, though no less full of learning. Are you guys familiar with the site Ravelry?

4:51

Nope.

4:51

It's an online community for knitters and crocheters and it's also been of many a drama and they're very good at like ferreting out, I would say bad behavior within their own community.

5:05

You could argue they're not sticking to their knitting.

5:07

I dare you to make that joke in there.

5:12

Sharp objects. I'm defenseless.

5:15

So in 2017, there's a little discussion brewing on Ravelry. There are people who have created knitting patterns. So this is when you design, let's say a shawl or a pair of socks or something and you put up the instructions Right. And people who have created these patterns notice that there is a business based in my town that is using their patterns without permission. This business was selling memberships to like a monthly fiber arts club where you would be emailed these patterns. Right. And so it turns out that this business was taking patterns from people without compensating them. And so yeah, the original creators then found, and then the sleuths unravelry pieced together this huge Excel spreadsheet of over a hundred designers who had their patterns kind of co opted by this business. And the whole thing came tumbling down. They raised a huge stink about it. There seems to have been some kind of mediation process with the Illinois attorney general. There are complaints filed. The business was eventually shut down.

6:18

I am seeing a legal issue here of copyright infringement.

6:23

Yes, that is exactly right. And what's so interesting to me is that, you know, knitting patterns are not explicitly mentioned in copyright law. I don't think they've historically risen to the level where they would be kind of like a huge body of, I guess like jurisprudence around this kind of stuff.

6:41

I also know that clothes are not copyrightable as well.

6:44

Right? Clothes are not copyrightable. So this is like one of those kind of mind bending things, right, where a knitting pattern can be considered a work of visual art if there's like a picture or, or a graphic attached to it. But the clothing you make from that knitting pattern, the scarf, pair of socks, that's not copyrightable. And so clothing is a very funny area of copyright law. And then if you did what this local business did, which is not compensate the original creator of these knitting patterns, that can be a problem.

7:13

Don't mess with the knitting nerds, I guess is the lesson of this story.

7:17

Absolutely not. I mean there's like more stories from Ravelry. I could tell you too, but I'll save that for a different episode.

7:23

Well, Adrian, we come to you. Your favorite true crime podcast movie, newspaper article.

7:31

My favorite piece of true crime dates back to April 2023. A large truck is pulling away from the US Mint in Philadelphia. It's carrying very valuable cargo. The truck is headed for Miami, but along the way, the driver decides to stop for the night and pulls into a Walmart parking lot. Overnight, a group of people break into this truck. They swing open the doors and what do they find?

8:01

High end Danish furniture.

8:04

They find the Declaration of Independence.

8:08

That would also be good. But in fact they found $750,000 worth of dimes. Oh, 7.5 million dimes.

8:18

That's so many dimes.

8:21

I bet they were both equally excited and disappointed at the same time.

8:25

They tried to make lemonade out of lemons. And they started loading these dimes into bags and trash cans and then made off with them.

8:33

Think about just the amount that that many dimes would weigh.

8:37

Apparently the amount of dimes they made off with was about $234,000 worth, which is about 6 tons of dimes. And.

8:47

And they just roll it away in trash cans.

8:51

I think some of it ended up in, like, cars. And there's actually a photo from a Philadelphia Inquirer article this year which shows a photo of one of the alleged thieves just lying in the back of a car on top of a pile of dimes.

9:05

Like, Scrooge McDuck style, just loose dimes.

9:08

So they actually tried to convert these dimes by depositing them in various banks and converting them at those, like, coin star machines.

9:18

Oh, my gosh. Imagine going to the grocery store with a trash can full of dimes.

9:24

Totally legit. Totally legit.

9:27

Yeah. So this plan did not end up working out for the alleged burglars because, well, they were caught and they were arrested and they were charged with theft, robbery, and conspiracy to commit racketeering. And here is the sort of the, the mystery that still lingers from this story, which is a large portion of these dimes, according to the Philly Inquirer, are still unaccounted for. So out there somewhere may be hundreds of thousands of dimes just, like, waiting to be discovered.

9:58

All right, I'm buying a metal detector and heading to Philadelphia.

10:02

This is our new spinoff podcast, the Dime Hunt.

10:05

The Dime hunters get rich or dime trying.

10:09

That wraps up Vice week. Thank you everyone for your loyal listening and we will be back to our scheduled programming on Monday.

10:17

Stay in school and don't commit crimes.

10:20

Our series this week on the evolving business of crime was produced by super producer Cooper Katz McKim with engineering by Jimmy Keeley. It was fact checked by Cierra Juarez. Cake and Cannon edits the show and the indicators of production of npr.

10:34

It.

Scam compounds, sewing patterns and stolen dimes

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